GOLDWATER AND THE CONSERVATIVE BELIEFS.

[Lock Piatt]

Barry Goldwater believed that the Constitution meant what it said and did not need to be revised reviewed or changed. He supported low taxes and a strong defence. He also railed about the thought police in our bedrooms and schools where to quote him "They have no damn right to interfere in our free right to do as we damn well please."

He fought wasteful spending because it was our money not the governments. Progressive taxes were wrong and not allowed in the Constitution. All taxes and levies must be as to population or equally divided equally amongst the citizens based on a head count. There are many ways the Forefathers tried to protect the citizens from wealth removal from citizens for government purposes.

These unfair actions started the Goldwater conservative movement that carried the country through the Reagan Presidency. Goldwater was the father of the party not Reagan.

[I'm Back]

Hello Lock,
When we start talking about Goldwater, or even Reagan for that matter, we tend to date ourselves. Using your Goldwater quote however, sums things up quite succinctly: They have no damn right to interfere in our free right to do as we damn well please."

Currently, the Republican Party is devoid of morals, ethics, character and fiscal responsibility. Who is there to choose from? Perhaps within the next four years, hopefully within two, someone will step forward to fill the void.

Until then, we are drifting aimlessly, and I'm not prone to be one of the lemmings that suscribe to the Rush-Hannity-Coulter mindless nonsense.

[Merlin26-K45]

The Democratic party is the one devoid of morals, ethics, character, and fiscal responsibility. So I'm a rodent, because I listen to people try to tell the truth. You are nuts. You also can't spell, because subscribe, not suscribe, is spelled wrong. If you don't like the Republican Party, if you don't want to help it go back to its conservative roots, then get off this network. You should leave, this, you big dope. Courtesy of Mark Levin. You big dope.

[Jimmy Clendennen]

"Goldwater was the father of the party not Reagan"

What about "Mr. Republican" Robert A. Taft?

[Michael Brennan]

Do not forget about Teddy Roosevelt whom Goldwater quoted alot.

[Tomb]

Though. Whose policies should we follow more? Progressives Lincoln and Roosevelt or Conservative Reagen?

[Lock Piatt]

Well,

Reagan is the correct spelling, unless you were referring to someone else. Lincoln was not a "progressive in today's definition but Roosevelt was. So being a Goldwater Conservative I will follow The most conservative past leader's philosophy because freedom and smaller Government always works best.

Examples of progressive ideas - US Post Office (union), OSHA, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. Amtrak, the VA, Federal Highway department. EPA, Congress operating outside the Constitution limits, prisons with color TV and workout rooms (no class rooms), federal education department (learning has gone down each year since invention), and many others - all gross failures that put the country in a bankrupt financial position.

The road to hell is easy - RECONSIDER.

[Tomb]

The Alternative to all those things are...?

[Tomb]

Besides there is also the Clean Water and Air Act (A Progressive Nixon move) and ended the draft (also Nixon), FDA, My being an American by being Non-Nativist and allowing my anscestors to immigrate during this time period, Square Deals, The Beautiful Yellow Stone and hundreds of other such conservation parks, breaking up monopolies to encourage diverse and small buiesness, lead to the 18th and 19th amendments, Muckracking,

I also like my Highway.

[Lock Piatt]

TOMB,

NOW YOU OPEN THE COFFIN OF POLITICS. You speck of programs that occurred because they were needed. This could have been done by the individual states as the Constitution requires. The clean water act is a real mess and has been since first passed, the limits are unreal and costs of water has increased many times the inflation rate. Not to mention the mess they have created over water rights.

Parks are a business of states, the federal government has no claim or right in the Constitution to own land in the States and not pay taxes. (see Sagebrush Rebellion 1970-1980s) Let us review the other Progressive (liberal socialist) accomplishments - Medicare and medicaid bankrupt and filled with bad management, Department of Education resulting in the rapid degradation of learning over 50% of the high school graduates are functional illiterate and can not do simple math. When schools were built by the towns they served they got the job done with a tenth of the dollars per student - oh maybe turning the teaching profession over to the unions had some effect?

Then let us go onto the post office system, this is a Constitutional allowed Federal function which includes Post roads (national highway system). They have done real well; have they not? Next we can go to railroads, the Federal Government took over the Amtrak system 30 or more years ago stating that they would just finance it's recovery and then sell it back to the private system - did not happen but the unions kept their jobs. Maybe this is what will happen to the Auto industry, save union jobs and lose billions per year.

I can go on and on but the point is made. Progressive Socialist operations of owning or "controlling industries" just does not work. England tried it and abandoned the concept under the Thatcher Government in the 80's. France has tried it since the revolution and is now giving up on the idea and turning conservative. The treasured Free medical system of Switzerland is only good if you are included in the political class or the rich which get very good care, however the regular citizens receive something less.

Like always Progressive-ism - Socialism rewards the political class and the rich over the hoards of just workers. Communism had it's super rich they were the 10 % that belonged to the "PARTY". Europe and the entire EU is turning to Conservative business methods to rebuilt their industries and economies. China has built a economic powerhouse in Hong Kong by limiting income taxes to a fixted rate and so did Russia (not a progressive system like America).

[Tomb]

You can't really compare Progressivism in America to whats going on in Europa or China. Rich over Poor of a different country, this is America not Switzerland. Different systems entierly really of what they had before, when they had it, and afterward. You will find all programs that have helped the worker and eliminated corruption in buiesness and corporate excess to be rooted in American progressivism.

Besides if anything the reason any of these ideas were to fail would be because of Mis-management. The Democratic party at the moment sadly is the only bastion of progressive thinking in this day and era but their handling of it is not the best. Where a Progressive Republican would go with a system-if it works great then we would stay with it but if it fails we would immediatly look to reform or removing it for a better system. While the Democratic solution is just to keep throwing moneya t it. Many times of which done without proper inquiry.
We haven't had a vaguley ful Progressive Republican in ages so it would be almost natural that these programs would be mishandled and allowed to bloat out of control by both parties. Like the stimulus, the idea of it is accepted by economists on all sides of the political spectrum but is bogged down by pet projects of the Democrats.

Besides the Department of Education is here still. You have to realize that we in the US have always bragged that we had 'social mobility'--a person born in a log cabin can grow up to be president, a baby born in poverty can become a doctor or lawyer or billionaire. The path for social mobility is public education! If education were to become private then that could lead to a whole nest of problems for education as their is that possible that someone teaching the next generation will teach them their own special interest's version of things. A total revision of history?!!!

Now I could go on and on and on about how your wrong but let me here from you, what solutions do you even offer up to these problems or how do you see they could have been done differently and the end result of such actions taken differently? What Alternatives now and then do you offer?

[Lock Piatt]

Disband the department of education - stop all Federal funding and controls. Next disband the teachers union and return all schools and the sole responsibility for quality, equality and operation to the local jurisdiction. The local controlled education system built and operated the system form more than 150 years during which time America built the best educated work force on planet earth. It was also the most productive. This allowed the increase in the numbers of middle class citizens and a much higher standard of living. You can not defend the performance of the progressive ruled current school system K through College. Students can read, can not write, can not add or subtract. Even College graduates can not perform to 6th grade standards in math and reading.

I will add more as we debate one item at a time.

[Tomb]

Uuuuuh I'm a College Student, I can read and write and do math and have always been in these "Progressive Liberal Public Schools" and I'm pretty sure the 3.0+ Grade Point Avg since Middle School speaks for that.

You see WHAT would we replace it with? If things go private then how will low income families afford to go to send their children to education? What is their to stop schools from teaching Creationism and other false subjects as actual courses? What if history will be rewritten?! Whats to stop Students in Texas learning one thing and students in Ohio something completely different?